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	<title>subprocess &#187; atheism</title>
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	<description>linux geek/dad</description>
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		<title>I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;re stupid.</title>
		<link>http://subprocess.net/2009/07/09/i-dont-think-youre-stupid/</link>
		<comments>http://subprocess.net/2009/07/09/i-dont-think-youre-stupid/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:06:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>thepet</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[atheism]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://subprocess.net/?p=142</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It seems to me that when people write critically of religion that people assume the author feels superior to theists.
I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;re stupid, if you believe in God.  I don&#8217;t think I was stupid when I believed in God and prayed to him daily.  In general, I don&#8217;t think that having faith [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me that when people write critically of religion that people assume the author feels superior to theists.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;re stupid, if you believe in God.  I don&#8217;t think I was stupid when I believed in God and prayed to him daily.  In general, I don&#8217;t think that having faith is stupid.  I think it&#8217;s important for some people to have faith and I think no less of them for having it.</p>
<p>Believing in God is all about faith.  There is no evidence for a supernatural being.  But at the same time, there&#8217;s no evidence against a supernatural being.  Some people believe in God, some people believe in Fairies, some people believe in Santa Clause, and some people believe in multiple Gods.  Since there is no evidence at all to support these beliefs, it takes faith.  And I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;re stupid for having faith.</p>
<p>I liked the way Richard Dawkins explained what he means when he says he&#8217;s an atheist in his book &#8220;The God Delusion&#8221;:  God is very improbable.  He doesn&#8217;t believe 100% that a supernatural being does not exist.  He just finds that God is very improbable.  More improbable than an agnostic would admit.</p>
<p>So to him, an atheist is someone who finds God just as improbable as invisible pink unicorns.  It&#8217;s not definite that neither exists, but it&#8217;s pretty safe to say they don&#8217;t.  I agree with him much on this.</p>
<p>I greatly enjoyed those parts of &#8220;The God Delusion&#8221;.  As he talked about the beauty and awesome power of non-random natural selection.  He gets a bit radical towards the end when he declares that raising kids as a &#8220;Christian&#8221; or &#8220;Catholic&#8221; or &#8220;Jew&#8221; is child abuse&#8230;</p>
<p>So to claim that you are an atheist is to claim that God is improbable.  No faith required.  To claim that you are religious is to claim that God definitely exists.  Much faith required.</p>
<p>Given all that&#8230; I do get passionate about a few things.  But that passion has nothing to do with thinking less of religions.</p>
<p>I get passionate about defending atheist&#8217;s morals.  I have encountered people who think that to be an atheist means you no longer have a reason to be a nice, moral, positive addition to society.  If anything, I have become nicer and a more positive addition to society than when I was Christian.</p>
<p>I get passionate about equal rights.  Yes, I do think it&#8217;s horribly mean and unjust of religion to try and socially hurt homosexuals as much as they can.  Go ahead and declare that homosexuality isn&#8217;t for you because you disagree with it&#8230; but don&#8217;t hold that against the GLBT community and don&#8217;t fight against movements to grant them the rights they deserve.</p>
<p>I get passionate about education.  My kids are entering the public school system and I want them to have a modern education in the science classroom.  So I get passionate about a few things&#8230;</p>
<p>The Earth/Universe is old and should be taught that way.  This isn&#8217;t simply a &#8220;guesstimate&#8221;, multiple areas of science have independently came to the same conclusion.  To disagree with the Earth and Universe being billions of years old is to ignore a freaking ton of evidence.  Again, this is where faith is required.  If you believe the Earth/Universe is young, you believe that on FAITH.  And that&#8217;s fine, go ahead.  Just admit that it&#8217;s faith and keep it out of the science classrooms.</p>
<p>Evolution is true.  It has been said &#8220;nothing makes sense in modern biology without evolution&#8221;.  It is both a fact and a scientific theory.  It needs to be taught in science classes.  The fact is that humans have slowly evolved in to what we are now.  The scientific theory is the best explanation (&#8221;natural selection&#8221; &#8211; that is testable and has been tested) for <strong>how</strong> humans have evolved in to what we are now.</p>
<p>If there were valid evidence against an old earth/universe or evolution&#8230;  Scientists would gladly change their thoughts.  Such evidence would be accepted with open arms and praised by scientists worldwide for proving them wrong.  Scientists like it when they&#8217;re proven wrong.</p>
<p>So to believe that evolution is false takes faith.  And I&#8217;m OK with that, go ahead and believe (with faith) that evolution is wrong.  Just admit that it&#8217;s faith and stop trying to get the public schools to agree with your faith.</p>
<p>So I hope that clears any misconceptions up.  I respect your faith and do not think less of you for having it.  Just don&#8217;t attack atheists for having no morals, and keep your faith to yourselves.  Just as someone with Christian faith wouldn&#8217;t want someone with Muslim faith forcing their faith on them, they should not force their faith on others.</p>
<p>I do not think having faith is stupid.  It&#8217;s just not for me anymore and I have strong beliefs that your own personal faith should be just that&#8230; yours and personal.</p>
<p>It is true that I also think that the world just might be better off without religion.  I highly doubt it&#8217;d be any worse.  But I recognize that a world with no religion is a long long long&#8230; LONG way off.  And I don&#8217;t think the typical religious person (I&#8217;m thinking of just about all the Christians/Catholics/Jews I have known and I am still good friends with) are holding the world back.  I&#8217;m thinking of the extremes, the militant.  Faith inspires some to do crazy things like suicide mass murder missions, or to carry out &#8220;justice&#8221; with their own two hands and murder an individual.  Would 9/11 had happened if there was no religion?  With no promise of eternal bliss to the terrorists for striking down sinful America?  I personally don&#8217;t think so.</p>
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		<title>Sunday School</title>
		<link>http://subprocess.net/2008/10/11/sunday-school/</link>
		<comments>http://subprocess.net/2008/10/11/sunday-school/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 22:49:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>thepet</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Journal]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[atheism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[parenting]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Religion]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://subprocess.net/?p=83</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yesterday morning I was talking with Janelle (6 years old, in KG) and she was telling me all about how school works.
&#8220;First there&#8217;s Kindergarten, which is in elementary school.  Then there&#8217;s Church, Middle School, High School and then College.&#8221;
I laughed.  &#8220;Ummm&#8230; Church?&#8221;
&#8220;Yeah, church,&#8221; she replied.
So I asked, &#8220;What&#8217;s Church?&#8221;
&#8220;Oh, it&#8217;s just one of [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yesterday morning I was talking with Janelle (6 years old, in KG) and she was telling me all about how school works.</p>
<p>&#8220;First there&#8217;s Kindergarten, which is in elementary school.  Then there&#8217;s Church, Middle School, High School and then College.&#8221;</p>
<p>I laughed.  &#8220;Ummm&#8230; Church?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Yeah, church,&#8221; she replied.</p>
<p>So I asked, &#8220;What&#8217;s Church?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Oh, it&#8217;s just one of the schools.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Who told you about Church?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;No one,&#8221; she sighed, &#8220;I just know about it.&#8221;  I&#8217;m not certain, but I think she rolled her eyes here.</p>
<p>I was confused and had to pause a bit to think it over. &#8220;Oh, do you mean Sunday School?&#8221; I asked.</p>
<p>&#8220;Yeah, that&#8217;s at Church.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Ohhh&#8230; Well Sunday School isn&#8217;t a normal School.  It&#8217;s a special School.  They only teach you about the Bible and Religion.  It&#8217;s not part of the School you&#8217;re in.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;What&#8217;s the Bible?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Uh&#8230; a book.&#8221;  She looked like that was obviously not sufficient.  &#8220;Umm&#8230;  You know those songs at Christmas time about baby Jesus?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Yeah!  The ones the Cowboys sing!&#8221; She yelled.</p>
<p>We try to listen to kid friendly and generic Christmas music.  But almost always when a Country Christmas song comes on (hence the Cowboys) it mentions baby Jesus.  She&#8217;s asked us about that before and we tried our best to dodge the question for now.  Questions like, &#8220;Why is this song on the Christmas station?  It&#8217;s not Christmas music.&#8221;,  when &#8220;Silent Night&#8221; is on.</p>
<p>I laugh.  &#8220;Yeah.  The Bible is all about him.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Oh, OK.&#8221;  She replied and then left to do something else.</p>
<p>*phew*</p>
<p>So now I&#8217;m concerned&#8230;  She&#8217;s starting to ask questions that I&#8217;m not quite sure how to answer yet.  I want my kids to have as much information in front of them as possible, and for them to be old enough to understand the information, before any information is in front of them at all.  I know&#8230; that&#8217;s not possible.</p>
<p>But when is the right age to talk about Religion?  Obviously not now, now she still believes us when we tell her about Santa and the Tooth Fairy.  So obviously, to me, telling a six year old about Religion would be wrong.  So do we wait until she&#8217;s old enough to recognize who/what/why Santa really is?</p>
<p>I guess, for now, those are my thoughts.  When she&#8217;s old enough and wise enough to recognize that Santa isn&#8217;t real because we tell her Santa is real, then she&#8217;ll be old enough to be told what Religion is.  What spirituality is.  And at that point I&#8217;d want to go all out:</p>
<ul>
<li>Many different Religions in the world</li>
<li>Similarities between them all</li>
<li>History of Religions from the ancient Religions before Judaism to modern Christianity and beyond to modern creations like Scientology</li>
</ul>
<p>And yeah, I&#8217;d expect it to be overwhelming.  But I want my kids to understand, accept, and respect differences in the world.  And I want them to make clear educated decisions in all areas of their lives.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t hope that they&#8217;ll believe one thing and not another.  I hope that they&#8217;ll believe what they truly believe, confidently, happily and proudly.  It doesn&#8217;t matter if it&#8217;s different from what I believe, as long as they come to that decision on their own and with sufficient information.</p>
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		<title>Us immoral atheists.</title>
		<link>http://subprocess.net/2008/05/16/us-immoral-atheists/</link>
		<comments>http://subprocess.net/2008/05/16/us-immoral-atheists/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 03:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>thepet</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Rant]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[atheism]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://subprocess.net/2008/05/16/us-immoral-atheists/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My wife participates on several parenting bulletin boards and sometimes shares the more interesting threads with me.  The other day she let me know that, since we&#8217;re atheists, we have no morals.  You evidently need to be Christian to have morals.
So I started to google about some bible passages I remembered from when I was [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My wife participates on several parenting bulletin boards and sometimes shares the more interesting threads with me.  The other day she let me know that, since we&#8217;re atheists, we have no morals.  You evidently need to be Christian to have morals.</p>
<p>So I started to google about some bible passages I remembered from when I was a moral Christian.  And I discovered some differences between my morals and the morals the bible teaches me:</p>
<p><span id="more-34"></span></p>
<ul>
<li>Slavery.  By slavery I mean: purchase of another human beings life against their will.
<ul>
<li>Bible is pro slavery.  In some cases all descendants of one person who committed a pretty minor offense were forced in to slavery.  Not only is the Bible pro slavery, but it has many rules for slavery.  Such as beating your slaves.  As long as you hold off on your slave beating just enough so that the slave doesn&#8217;t die for 2 days, God&#8217;s OK with it.</li>
<li>I&#8217;m anti slavery.  And I&#8217;m anti beating anyone at all.  Even if it takes 3 days for them to die.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Sex
<ul>
<li>The Bible has some weird rules about sex.  Not much of it is actually explicitly laid out.  One story I find interesting is Genesis 38.  In this chapter we learn that Judah marries some girl and has 3 sons.  He arranges a marriage with the first son and a woman, but for some reason God didn&#8217;t like him and killed him.  So Judah makes his next son take that woman for his wife and demands kids.  His son has respect for his brother though and &#8220;spills his seed on the ground&#8221; instead of inside his dead brothers wife.  Well&#8230; God will have none of that, so God kills him!  Later on we find that this same woman, who was married to two of Judah&#8217;s now dead sons, dresses up like a prostitute and Judah pays her for the goods.  Well&#8230; what do you know, Judah gets the ex-wife (a prostitute he paid for) of his two dead sons pregnant.  And&#8230;. God kills him?  No.  God&#8217;s OK with this.  So what do we learn from this?
<ul>
<li>Unprotected sex with hookers is OK.  God will not kill you.</li>
<li>Taking precautions to prevent pregnancy is not OK.  Having sex WITH YOUR WIFE and trying to prevent a pregnancy will piss God off so much he might just kill you.  But&#8230; when was the last time you saw God smote someone?  When was the last time you saw God do anything?</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>I say educate and be safe.  Sex has many possible consequences and as long as you&#8217;re ready to deal with the possible consequences you&#8217;re probably ready for sex.  Keeping in mind that no birth control/condom is 100% effective.  Also unprotected sex with a hooker who is the widow of two of your sons is NOT OK.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li> Equality
<ul>
<li>All people are clearly not equal in the bible.  No equal rights for everyone.</li>
<li>I believe all people are equal and should therefore have equal rights.  Color of skin, religious beliefs, sexual preference, whatever.  We&#8217;re all equal.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Animal Sacrifices
<ul>
<li>Bible is pro them.  God often request animal sacrifices in the old testament.  He seems to lust for spilled blood and the smell of burnt flesh.  He even goes as far as convincing one of his loyal followers to sacrifice their OWN SON.  Sure, he stops him right before he actually does it, but that doesn&#8217;t make it any less of an asshole thing to do.</li>
<li>I like eating hamburgers/chicken/steak etc.  I&#8217;m not a vegetarian or anything.  But sacrificing an animal in some sort of ancient blood ritual and burning their flesh&#8230; yeah.  Not for me.</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
<p>Now I know that the new testament changes many things.  But remember it&#8217;s the same God throughout all of time.  The same God that Christians worship and call loving is this same God that kills individuals for minor infractions, the same God that wipes out entire populations of people, the same God that kills innocent babies in Egypt because of something the Pharaoh did.  So if we&#8217;re talking about Morals instilled upon us from the Christian God, you have to look at the whole bible.</p>
<p>And I know that these are not the morals that Christians today stand by.  Well&#8230; some of them are.  It&#8217;s hard to find a Christian that believes we&#8217;re all equal.  I have some wonderful friends that are Christian and I don&#8217;t think any less of them.  It&#8217;s just that for me it goes against my nature to follow these rules in the bible.  For me I felt more like I was sinning when I tried to follow what the new testament told me.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m just nicer than what the bible will allow me to be.</p>
<p>Now, I said,  &#8220;than what the bible will allow ME to be&#8221;.  Not that I&#8217;m nicer than all Christians.  I fought hard throughout college with what I felt the bible told me was right and wrong.  Others have different views on what is literal and what is not.  Or how one passage translates.  Or what is still valid for our modern culture.  You can come to many conclusions about what it means to be a Christian.  For me, the conclusions I have came to, I will never be Christian again.</p>
<p>Guess that brings up the question, &#8220;where do morals come from?&#8221;  I think it&#8217;s just a sense of what&#8217;s right and wrong instilled in us to keep order.  Some evolutionary scientists probably have some theories on it.  But if we all had no morals, no feelings, no empathy&#8230; we wouldn&#8217;t make it very far as a society.</p>
<p>And morals clearly change throughout time.  Which to me is a clear sign that morals are NOT from a divine superior unchanging perfect being.  Slavery <em>used</em> to be moral.  Racism <em>used</em> to be moral.  I know most people consider homosexuality to be immoral.  But some day I bet the majority of the world will accept gay marriage as equal to straight marriage.  Some day homosexuality will be moral.</p>
<p>I like to think that I don&#8217;t just follow the masses.  Who knows though, maybe there&#8217;s something in my life that I find &#8220;morally acceptable&#8221; will be so obviously not acceptable to future generations.</p>
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